Mark Clark [00:00:00]:
Hey, everyone.
Mark Clark [00:00:00]:
Welcome to the Mark Clark podcast brought to you by the Thrive podcast network. And we're doing a whole series, these three week series called Citizens of Joy. And I wanted to let you guys know, first and foremost that my new book that is coming out in February is called the Problem of Life. This is the first time I've talked about it anywhere, and I want you to go and get it, because the pre orders actually help a ton of people actually see the book and get the message of the book into their life. So if you jump over to Amazon and grab it, it is a book that is, explores everything to do about the human experience. So you have longings, you have suffering in your life. You face the question of where we came from, what is death about? What is meaning and purpose? How do you find joy, purpose, meaning, identity. In a disenchanted world, in a world that's trying to constantly take these things from you, life beats up on you.
Mark Clark [00:00:52]:
How do we thrive and flourish versus completely flounder and shrivel in life? What is the soul about? How does it connect to God? All of these massive questions about being human. And it's super practical, but it's the.
Mark Clark [00:01:04]:
Kind of book that you can read.
Mark Clark [00:01:04]:
With your friends and go, okay, what is this about? How do we get the most out of life? I'm super excited about it. It is, in my opinion, the best thing I have written out of the three books. If the first two books, the problem.
Mark Clark [00:01:14]:
Of God and the problem of Jesus.
Mark Clark [00:01:15]:
Were about God, this third book is about us. It's about the question of ourselves, where we're going, how do we actually exist in this world in the midst of everything that we experience, which is very.
Mark Clark [00:01:28]:
Much similar to the podcast that we're talking about today.
Mark Clark [00:01:30]:
We're diving into the book of Philippians. This is the second week of the three week series called Citizens of Joy, and this is chapter two. And we're actually uncovering key principles that can transform your marriage or relationship, from unity and friendship to making God the center of all of it. We're gonna share practical and biblical wisdom that can help you build a stronger and healthier partnership. So whether you're married, dating, whatever it.
Mark Clark [00:01:54]:
Is, just preparing for the future, this.
Mark Clark [00:01:56]:
Episode is for you. And I asked my wife, Erin, to come on it and teach with me. A lot of great stuff in here, a lot of great gems, and she's obviously the best. So let's get started. Citizens of joy, week two.
Mark Clark [00:02:07]:
Last week, we were supposed to be here speaking on marriage, but then, man, I woke up and was super sick. So anyway, we pushed it.
Erin Clark [00:02:17]:
So we woke up today and I had no voice, and he said, just keep talking. It'll work itself out. Let's go. So I apologize. The man cold is real.
Mark Clark [00:02:27]:
Hey. Hey.
Erin Clark [00:02:28]:
So thankful to talk to you guys about marriage after listening to him all weekend. But I am here. But I am here. Here we go.
Mark Clark [00:02:36]:
Indeed. All right, so as we talked about this last Saturday night, it was the end of the marriage conference. So we're going to try to make it about dating and friendship and all that generally, but mostly specifically about marriage, taken from Philippians, chapter two. So if you got a Bible, Philippians two, the first bunch of verses within that text, talk about the big idea of what we want to talk about. We want your marriages, relationships, friendships, to actually flourish. And Paul gives us a great passage to do that. And so even those of you who are like, okay, I'm not really married, about 94% of people still get married today, so it will be relevant to you at some point. And the big point is, the reason we talk about this for 35 minutes is because we have to be super intentional about flourishing in the context of our marriages.
Mark Clark [00:03:21]:
Cs Lewis said, some people seem to think that good marriages always come naturally, as if they were made in heaven. But good marriages, he said, are made. They are not born. So we have to be super intentional about our marriages.
Erin Clark [00:03:36]:
Yeah. We know that anything that we do in life doesn't just happen. We have to work hard at it. I just listened to a podcast last week with Ed Sheeran, and he was talking about all the struggles and how hard he worked to get to where he is today. He's won Grammys, he's won accolades. He's got number one hits. And yet still, every single day, he goes into his studio and he writes three songs. Every single day he is still striving.
Erin Clark [00:04:03]:
And that's true for relationships. That's true for marriage. We need to every day be fighting for what matters. It goes back to the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours. We need to put in the repetition, put in the time, and you'll see it flourish.
Mark Clark [00:04:18]:
Yeah, that's good. So we want to talk about how we can actually do that. How do we actually flourish in these relationships?
Erin Clark [00:04:23]:
Yeah. So the way that we're going to do that is we need to look to goddess versus ourselves and culture. Because he knows marriage was God's invention first, it wasn't human beings. So when we think of our home, we all have different ways we do things in our home. We have different rules. And then you go to other people's homes and you're like, huh? That's not how that works at our house. I remember when my kids were young, I like to be silly and do silly things with them. And I remember one time I was doing laundry and there was underwear there.
Erin Clark [00:04:55]:
So I put it on my head and we laughed. And it just became a thing in our house where our kids would run around with underwear on their heads. And we thought nothing of it. We just, sorry, girls that are out there. And we just did this. And then all of a sudden we go to someone else's house. And we're eating dinner. And all of a sudden these kids run through the kitchen.
Erin Clark [00:05:17]:
And they all have our friends underwear on their head. Not the children's, but our friends. And Mark and Amanda goes in the bedroom and their underwear is strewn all across their bedroom. And we're like, oh, no, no, no. That's what we do at our house. And Mark's like, we shouldn't be doing that at our house either. Your mom is crazy disgusting. Different homes, different rules.
Mark Clark [00:05:42]:
So it's kind of a metaphor. We were talking about using it as metaphors. Like, when it comes to marriage, this is God's house. He invented it. We don't get to go, well, this is the way we're going to do dating and marriage and sex and whatever. Like, God invented it. Set the rules and said, this is how you're going to flourish. You don't get to come over here and do it by your own rules.
Mark Clark [00:06:04]:
I've set it out for you. And so this is one of the big things that we got to do. How are we going to actually flourish in these things? God has said. So I was reading a book years ago and by a guy named nt Wright. And he talked about Adam and Eve in the garden. And he said there's three directions that they were born to kind of live out. And I think they're super helpful to frame this conversation. He called it sex, God, and gardening.
Mark Clark [00:06:31]:
So he said, your life is meant to be lived out, especially in the context of your marriage. Sex, God, and gardening are the three things that you're supposed to do. Now. He didn't mean sex like actually literally physical sex. That is part of it. That's kind of the apex relationship with people, then relationship with God, and then relationship to the world. So we're going to give you. We're going to unpack these three for you.
Mark Clark [00:06:55]:
So the first is sex or others. Relationships, unity, intimacy as the key to a healthy marriage. So here's what Philippians chapter two, verse one, says. Therefore, if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the spirit of any tenderness and compassion, then make my joy complete by being like minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and one in mind. So the big idea is unity. He's saying, as the church, I need you guys to be unified. And even in the context of marriage, we know this to be true, that the number one issue isn't that you have a conflict problem. It's not that you have a communication problem.
Mark Clark [00:07:43]:
It's not that you have a sex problem. It's that you have a friendship problem. You're not one enough. You're not attached. So the main thing we need to be working on, and John Gottman, who's like, the number one marriage guy in the world right now, you can go to Seattle, to the Gottman Institute, and he can sit with you for five minutes and figure out a within a 95 percentile whether you're going to get divorced for the next two years. And he watches. And the number one issue, Gottman says, is friendship attachment. Do you actually like each other? Cause all the other problems of your life are actually downstream from the issue of, are you united? Do you have common sharing? Are you like minded? Are you one in spirit and one in mind? That's the idea, yeah.
Erin Clark [00:08:27]:
And we know that we are all gonna have conflict in life. There's always something to argue about. If we were to ask this room, who's your favorite sports team? What are your political views? How do you. How do you raise your kids? What's the best way to do this? It will be endless. And what he's trying to say here is that in a world of chaos, how do we stand out? How do we as christians stand united? Because conflict is going to happen. It's going to happen in relationships. We're going to disagree. It's okay to disagree.
Erin Clark [00:08:58]:
But how do we present ourselves like minded under Christ? And this is true in marriage and relationships as well. Unity and closeness is everything.
Mark Clark [00:09:09]:
Yeah. This concept of, like, Paul's initially talking to the church, telling the church to be unified. How are we doing with that, by the way, in America? Hey, church, I want you to be united. I want you to be calm and share. I want you to be one in spirit. Guys, a week or two ago, someone posted a video of me on Instagram answering a question about women in ministry. And the thing has, like, a million and a half views. All these people are arguing.
Mark Clark [00:09:40]:
I mean, you should go on and read the comments if you want to lose your faith.
Erin Clark [00:09:43]:
It will not be life giving. Do not.
Mark Clark [00:09:45]:
Christians are insane. They're all arguing with each rah. One guy starts arguing that I'm a meth addict. He actually says that. He's like, I think he watches the video. I think this guy's got a crystal meth issue. And I'm like, no, I don't. I have Tourette's.
Mark Clark [00:10:06]:
They're all like, why is he so twitchy? I can't believe this guy.
Erin Clark [00:10:08]:
He's uncomfortable answering this question.
Mark Clark [00:10:10]:
What are we talking about? I have Tourette's, you morons.
Erin Clark [00:10:17]:
I think they forget, too, that there's a human being behind it. Our girls are like, daddy, do you do meth?
Mark Clark [00:10:24]:
So, point being, church, be unified. One mind attached. Thinking about unity versus division. Same application in the context of your marriage and attachment.
Erin Clark [00:10:39]:
Yeah. And so how are we going to get there? We need to prioritize each other over everything. Over kids, over friends, over our jobs. We have friends that were celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary, and at this time, the kids stood up. Their parents 50th anniversary, and they stood up, and they shared what we knew to be true. What gave us security as kids was that if we were on a boat and the boat went down, you two would give each other the life vests first. And at first when you hear that, you're like, ooh, that's harsh. Like, you're just gonna let the kids flounder.
Erin Clark [00:11:12]:
And it's like, no, no. Actually, in that, those kids felt secure. If my parents are secure, I feel safe. I feel settled. We see that, like, with Mark and I are holding hands. Our kids just, like, breathe a little bit. When we're in tension, they feel that extra stress. And so when we go away, it's hard.
Erin Clark [00:11:33]:
It never feels right, leaving our kids, but we know.
Mark Clark [00:11:38]:
Never feels right.
Erin Clark [00:11:39]:
Never. But we know that in that it's not only healthy for us, but it's actually healthy for our kids, because when they see us flourish, it gives them security.
Mark Clark [00:11:48]:
Yeah. It's like, would your kids look at you as if you like each other? That's the question. Are you friends? Is there an attachment that you have? Like, our kids see us go away in different trips. A couple weeks ago, Aaron had bought Sienna and I tickets for the u two show in Vegas at the sphere, because we love you, too. We love the music. So it's, like, saved up. Got us these birthday tickets. So we went down last week, and when we went, I think, like, sienna thought we were gonna be, like, you know, staying at a little hotel or super eight or something.
Mark Clark [00:12:21]:
So we get there, and we like, oh, we got a nice hotel. So we get there, and she's walking through. She's like, where are we? She's like, I can see why you and mom love to go away. It's like, this is legit, and it's like, your kids and people around you seeing your unity, your one mindedness, your attachment is actually what the world needs to see. So here's the other big part about this, and I think this is one of the great principles of marriage that's not working. Francis Chan says that this verse is probably the most important verse in the Bible in regard to marriage. Okay. Philippians, chapter two.
Mark Clark [00:13:03]:
And it's right in our passage. For citizens of join, do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interests of what the others. So imagine you lived with a filter that said, I am going to live my life where my spouse's interests are more important than my own. Like, when you wake up in the morning, like, that's not. That's not natural, right? Our natural setting is to think about us. Like, my natural setting is to think about me.
Erin Clark [00:13:43]:
I can vouch for that. That's true. Just last week, we were getting ready to come and speak at the marriage conference, and I had already gotten up. We have a new puppy. So you're hands on. They have very specific needs. And I had already gotten up with the puppy, fed the puppy, but I had to run upstairs and finish getting ready. Mark had just come downstairs after I'd already done this for an hour, and I was like, hey, I just need you to take this puppy outside and leave this puppy outside with you.
Erin Clark [00:14:12]:
Make sure she doesn't follow me back upstairs. I go upstairs. No sooner does the puppy follow me upstairs, I'm like, okay, this is working out great. I scoop the puppy up. I walk downstairs. The doors are closed outside. I'm like, clearly I didn't tell him to go outside with the puppy. I walk towards the door with the puppy, and I look.
Erin Clark [00:14:34]:
Mark is sitting outside in the backyard without the puppy, just drinking his coffee, reading a book. I'm like, okay, okay, great. I'm like, did you make me a coffee? He's like, I just thought you would have had one already. Great, right?
Mark Clark [00:14:51]:
I had to make my own coffee. No, but, like, imagine you woke up. Like, picture you woke up every morning trying to outdo the other one. Like, I know, I know. Like, Aaron knows my love language is, like, physical touch and making out. Like, that's my love language, right? That's in the Bible, so. But Aaron's love language is, like, serving the. Make sure the kids are set.
Mark Clark [00:15:21]:
Make sure the house is clean. So imagine that I went, oh, my goodness. Let me set my alarm early.
Erin Clark [00:15:28]:
Yeah, let's imagine that for a moment. Okay, I'm in. I'm in it. Here we go. You've set your alarm early.
Mark Clark [00:15:36]:
I've set my alarm early to try to get downstairs and clean and get the kids all set. But before that, she has set her alarm earlier than mine so that we can make out. And I'm like, imagine we're good.
Erin Clark [00:15:50]:
We're good. Let's move it along.
Mark Clark [00:15:52]:
Like, imagine we're trying to outdo each other.
Erin Clark [00:15:55]:
Okay, got it.
Mark Clark [00:15:56]:
That's the beautiful part.
Erin Clark [00:15:57]:
That's the beautiful part.
Mark Clark [00:15:58]:
Life would be bliss. We lived like this, right? That's Paul's point. Live like the other person is more important than yourself.
Erin Clark [00:16:08]:
That's the idea. And that's the key, too, is loving each other the way that they want to be loved. There is no greater place to model who Christ is that he came to serve, not to be served, than within our very home. Like, when we sacrificially serve our spouse, I guarantee it will transform your marriage.
Mark Clark [00:16:30]:
But in order to do that, well, here's what you need to do. You need to learn your spouse. You can't just assume anything about them. I. After 25 years together and 20 years married, I have a PhD in Erin Clark. Right. I know all of her weird quirks. I know what cups she doesn't like to drink out of and how many ice cubes she needs.
Mark Clark [00:16:53]:
Like, you guys need to be.
Erin Clark [00:16:55]:
I'm not eating your spouses, but I'm here. But I show up.
Mark Clark [00:17:00]:
What you do show up. So it's like, I. There's days where. There's days where things can get totally derailed. This is so weird. This is a quirk by having a bad meal. Are any of you like that? It's like, we could be. Everything could be fine.
Mark Clark [00:17:20]:
And then she has some bad food, and the whole day is derailed, and I can't get food.
Erin Clark [00:17:26]:
Like, I'm running. It's just not good quality.
Mark Clark [00:17:29]:
Bad quality.
Erin Clark [00:17:30]:
That also would ruin your day.
Mark Clark [00:17:31]:
Yeah, it's like, bad quality. Like, so I would rather. Here's what I've learned. I would rather, like, save up and spend money once a week on good quality food than to eat a bunch of bat. Because she's going to be in a bat. Like, this is me getting a PhD in her and understanding this is actually the way that we're going to flourish in life.
Erin Clark [00:17:52]:
Quietness makes it feel like I'm alone in this, but I feel like I can't be right.
Mark Clark [00:17:56]:
No, it's a thing.
Erin Clark [00:17:57]:
Yes.
Mark Clark [00:17:58]:
All right. Those two ladies are with it. So here's what marriage is meant to do. Romans chapter eight says, here's the will of God for your life, that you were conformed to the image of Christ, which means your marriage's job isn't to make you happy. It's to conform you into the image of Jesus. And your dating life is the person you're dating. Helping conform you into is helping you treasure Jesus more and become like him or not. That's the purpose.
Mark Clark [00:18:25]:
So being married to Aaron has filled out my portfolio as a human being for 20 years. I would pastor people and they would. Guys would come into my office and they'd go, I can't get my life together, and I'm tempted toward this, and I can't figure this. And I'd just be like, dude, figure your life out. And I'd just leave and shut the light off when you go kind of thing. And then Aaron would go, but did you pray for him? I'd be like, right. I got to do that next time. I got to remember that.
Mark Clark [00:18:54]:
Because she has crafted me into a better human being. This is what your spouse is supposed to be doing. They're supposed to be making you. I'm watching Aaron right now go through this cool season in her life, if I'm dead on us, where she's been reading some stuff and just asking, like, I want to be clear what the Holy Spirit's asking me to do. And so it's got her doing all kinds of stuff, talking to different. Like, she met with this homeless guy the other day, kind of sat with him for, like, half an hour and just, like, saw him and just understood and, like, journeyed with him and, like, was doing things that. It's like, she's got this thing going right now where what it's doing, and this is very important. It's making me want that.
Mark Clark [00:19:38]:
It's. Here's the. Here's the principle, guys. You, for your spouse, your job is not to lecture your spouse. Your job is to inspire them. That's what she's doing right now for me. She doesn't get up and say, here, so you should do this, too. She's not lecturing me.
Mark Clark [00:19:57]:
She's inspiring me. Listen, you can't be the holy spirit for your spouse. Right? Don't buy a stack of marriage books and put them on your husband's bedside table. They will sit there until Christ himself comes back, and they will not be touched. They won't be looked at. You can't do that. Your job is to walk with Jesus and so inspire your spouse that they want to be like you. They want to be more like you.
Mark Clark [00:20:28]:
That's the idea.
Erin Clark [00:20:29]:
Yeah. We need to fight for this unity that Paul talks about in spite of our differences. In face of our differences, if you were to put on paper mark and I's interests, our hobbies, our likes, our dislikes, our food preferences, no one would have thought we would be compatible. That just doesn't. We don't align in that, but on the things that matter, we are aligned. Differences are constantly, constantly gonna come up in relationships. Like, think about planning a vacation, how complicated that can be in a relationship. Any planners out there? Yeah, I will take months just planning something out, and he just shows up.
Erin Clark [00:21:12]:
Like, I remember the first time we took our kids to Disneyland. It was months of saving and planning. I had restaurants planned out. I'd packed food.
Mark Clark [00:21:22]:
We had, I had the, we had matching t shirts. Everyone had Star Wars t shirts all sized up.
Erin Clark [00:21:28]:
It was so cute. They're so cute, those little girls. And I remember this was before those genie passes. So you literally had to, like, map out the day. And I'm like, we're gonna run to this, and then we're gonna run to that. And he just. Just enjoys the day. He's like, it's Disneyland, baby.
Erin Clark [00:21:45]:
What do we got?
Mark Clark [00:21:46]:
Show up. What happens?
Erin Clark [00:21:47]:
We got nothing. We're all.
Mark Clark [00:21:49]:
Any people like that out there, right? It's just the personalities, just different.
Erin Clark [00:21:55]:
But you're also fortunate to have the person that planned it.
Mark Clark [00:21:58]:
Oh, we would have been fine, but that's cool.
Erin Clark [00:22:00]:
That's cool.
Mark Clark [00:22:01]:
We've been fine.
Erin Clark [00:22:01]:
But that's the thing. We can be different in all of these things. There's so many things that Mark and I, my girls can attest to this, how opposite we are, but we are aligned on the right things. God, the vision for our family ministry. And this happened long before I ever met Mark. For you youth in this audience, like, before I ever even started dating, I laid out a vision with God of who I wanted in my future spouse, of what were the character traits. God, who do you want to bring in to my life? And I always tell the girls, as they're thinking of future spouses, is. There's always going to be quirks.
Erin Clark [00:22:44]:
Every person is going to have quirks. Some people weirder than others, but character is what matters. Character is what matters. Do they love God? Do they treat you well? Do they work hard? Those things matters. And then the quirks you can do with. So what quirks are you willing to live with? Character, non negotiable. Relationship with Christ. Non negotiable.
Erin Clark [00:23:11]:
But the quirks, like this is. This is very timely that I'm sharing this. When my voice sounds like this, Mark's voice is a quirk for me. Okay? It is a quirk. His tone of voice. He could be saying, you're so beautiful. And I'm like, why are you yelling at me? Why are you yelling at me right now? I am more of a sensitive person, and I feel those things. And he'll be like, this is just my voice.
Erin Clark [00:23:38]:
I'm just talking to you. Just the other day, we were talking, and I was telling.
Mark Clark [00:23:44]:
Oh, yeah, okay, yes. So the other day. The other day, literally, she goes, I said, hey, how's that podcast go? She's like, oh, I stopped listening to that podcast months ago. I'm like, oh, why? She's like, there's a guy on it. He just annoys me to no end, and I've just stopped listening. And no joke, she doesn't miss a beat. She's like, actually, he reminds me of you. I'm like, what? How?
Erin Clark [00:24:08]:
I'm so.
Mark Clark [00:24:09]:
How is.
Erin Clark [00:24:11]:
Yeah, that actually wasn't the story I was gonna share, but thank you. Thank you, and I apologize. It was actually after that happened, we were at a restaurant, and I was talking to a woman of, hey, are you coming to the marriage conference tonight? And as I'm talking to her, mark looks at me, and he just gives me this face again. He has tourette's. I get that. But he gave me this face, and I was like, oh, no, what am I saying? Should I not invite this woman? Maybe this woman, like, I don't know. Her story. I don't know.
Erin Clark [00:24:41]:
And I start to derail as I keep talking to her and she leaves, and I'm like, what did I do? What just happened? And he goes, nothing. I don't know what you're talking. He had no idea that he gives me this face.
Mark Clark [00:24:55]:
But it's a bit of like, now you understand what it's like. I think I've shared with you guys, really. I can't look at Aaron when I'm preaching because like, it's good that she usually sits over there, because if she's sitting right here, this is what she looks like when I'm preaching. And at the end of the sermon, like, what did I say wrong? She's like, oh, that's the best sermon I've ever heard. I'm like, really? That's what? That's the best?
Erin Clark [00:25:25]:
It's just comfortable. I've now learned. Have you guys seen me the whole time? He's talking, I'm just adoringly. Take it away, babe.
Mark Clark [00:25:34]:
All right, so that's point number one. Sex, okay? Meaning, like, the intimacy, the attachment, the friendship that you actually need in regard. And the actual technical sex, too, is super important. If you're dating. It's saying. It's deciding now before your hormones take over. We're gonna do sex the way God designed it, which is waiting till marriage. That is where we're going to flourish.
Mark Clark [00:26:05]:
This is God's house. He designed it. This is what we're gonna do. And then when you do get married, making sure that that part of your life is healthy, right? Aaron likes to say that Satan tempts you to get together and keep your hands all over each other before you get married. But the minute you get married, he starts to work to keep you apart. The goal is to be intimate when you get married and making sure that's healthy, because here's what's going to happen. The world is going to try to keep you apart, right? Like, a couple weeks ago, I was traveling. I've been away for a bit.
Mark Clark [00:26:41]:
I was like, hey, baby, I'm getting home tonight. I just want to snuggle. I just.
Erin Clark [00:26:44]:
Yeah. And it's like you're coming home to clean the house.
Mark Clark [00:26:47]:
Yeah, I know. It's like, hey, hey. I just can't wait to get home. And snuggling Dee. Yeah, yeah. So I get home cautious.
Erin Clark [00:26:55]:
What you text in the morning? Cause you gotta follow through later.
Mark Clark [00:27:01]:
Sorry.
Erin Clark [00:27:01]:
Too much. Too much. Okay.
Mark Clark [00:27:03]:
You sound like Hannah Montana right now. Anyway, so. So I get home that night, and of course, what happens? All the crazy life, right? This and this. Am I okay? Everyone go to bed, okay? Try to get the house all settled and get it set right. No joke. Out of nowhere, my oldest daughter runs upstairs crying. We're like, what's going on? She's like, my cat just attacked me. I'm like, how does.
Mark Clark [00:27:31]:
She got scratches all over her face, she's bleeding. First time ever, I'm like, this demon animal is trying to keep me from.
Erin Clark [00:27:44]:
And moving along.
Mark Clark [00:27:46]:
That's what Satan will do in your marriage anyway. So make sure that you're fighting to keep the intimacy right. Can I get an amen? Let's go. All right. All right. Quality and quantity. And don't get a cat. Point number two.
Mark Clark [00:28:02]:
So, sex, very important. Secondly, God sex, God gardening. This is what nt Wright says. God, obviously, God in the garden, walking with Adam and Eve, says, I not only want you to relate to each other, I want you to relate to me. I want you to make me the center of your marriage. If you don't make me the center of your marriage, it is going to dissolve. So here's how we know that's true in sociologists say that we're living in a culture right now where our philosophy is what they call apocalyptic romance. And here's what they mean.
Mark Clark [00:28:35]:
In every other time, in every other culture, there were things that you could look to that would give you meaning and purpose and value and joy. They were, you know, your nation, or, you know, your family, your village, whatever. Today, we try to derive all of that from our romantic relationships. And when we do that, we not only crush the person we look to to give us all the joy and happiness in our life, we get disappointed and we start to look at them. And here's what you got to understand. Only Jesus Christ can fulfill the joy, meaning, and purpose in your life. No spouse can do that. No spouse can do that.
Mark Clark [00:29:18]:
And the reality is, if you look to a spouse to give you all your joy, one day, as Timothy Keller said, you will be burying your savior. One of you is going to bury the other one. And if you derive all your joy and meaning and purpose in life from that person, one day, they will be gone, and you will not have a savior anymore. You won't have someone. Only God can actually fulfill that in your life. So some of us are looking like, in this apocalyptic romance culture, we watch Jerry Maguire too much, right? It's like, you complete me, Renee Zellweger. And we're like, yes, my spouse completes me. If I just get up to the empire, top of the Empire State Building, and meet Tom Hanks, my whole life will be happy.
Mark Clark [00:30:04]:
And we watch all of these romance things. And the reality is we build up an expectation. And the greater the expectation, the greater the disappointment. One psychologist has said this. A good marriage can be brought down in two years by focusing on what you're not getting out of the relationship and how your partner fails to live up to your expectations.
Erin Clark [00:30:28]:
Yeah. When we were prepping this, I was sharing with Mark Howe sorry, I was sharing with Mark. Howdy. Every day I pray the fruit of the spirit over my kids, over my family, and I just do this in a rote way. Like, God, give me love. Help me to love my child the way that they need to be loved. God, give me self control. Help me to have self control when he's driving me crazy, whatever it might be.
Erin Clark [00:30:55]:
And Mark was like, hey, that would actually make a really good idea for a book like the fruit of the spirit. With marriage, what if all marriages functioned off of these nine things? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self control. Like, what if we took those character, you know, that character we were talking about earlier? God gave us a framework for it. Like, how are we rooted out of the fruit of the spirit? How are we living that out day by day? Mark is my favorite preacher. Like, the Holy Spirit works through him. And every time I leave, like, God just works in me. My girls, Mark is their favorite preacher. It goes back to that.
Erin Clark [00:31:47]:
Like, it doesn't just happen. If Mark didn't live the fruit of the spirit at home, if he said words from the stage, but then didn't live that out at home, the girls and I would just be sitting, oh, I see. I do that a lot. I do see that. But the girls and I. The girls and I would be like, that's hypocrisy. Like that. That man is not the same, but his character matches his words.
Erin Clark [00:32:13]:
He is living out scripture on the stage and off the stage, and that makes all the difference.
Mark Clark [00:32:21]:
So here's where Paul roots all of this. He doesn't just kind of give us these. These random philosophies. He roots it in Jesus. So here's who he explains. This is one of the great passages in the New Testament. We have time to get into all the technical details, and Pastor Kevin talked about it last week. But he talks about Christ, who is in very nature.
Mark Clark [00:32:40]:
God did not consider a quality with God something to be grasped in the greek or held onto or used to his own advantage. He made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant. Being made in human likeness and being found in appearance as a man humbled himself by becoming obedient to death, even death. On what? A cross. So the apostle Paul holds up the cross as the great example of how you're supposed to live in the context of relationships. That's why he's doing this in the passage. So how does that work in the context of marriage? Imagine you took everything you know about the cross of Christ and applied it to your relationship. What are things that the cross of Christ gives you? Forgiveness.
Mark Clark [00:33:21]:
Any of you need forgiveness in the context of your marriages, ever, right? Some of you are like, I can't forgive my spouse. You don't understand what they did. Cs Lewis years ago said, you know, whenever I feel like I can't forgive someone, here's what I realize. Every single day, there's one person that I find I have an ability to forgive, and that one person is me. I always somehow have the ability to look in the mirror and forgive and justify the actions of this man. So how if I expect God to forgive me, can't I apply that to others? We have it all the time in our marriage. I'm constantly having to forgive Aaron.
Erin Clark [00:34:00]:
Yeah. First up, seriously, just a couple weeks ago, Mark was scheduled to go away to speak somewhere. And I was speaking somewhere the night before he was leaving. We had had it planned because our kids had things that they needed driven to and all of that. And we're sitting talking, and he's like, yeah, yeah, I leave Thursday morning. I'm like, no, no, no. You can't leave Thursday morning. Cause you leave the day after I speak.
Erin Clark [00:34:24]:
That was always the plan is I'm speaking and then you're leaving. You can't be leaving Thursday morning. You have to be leaving Friday. He's like, Aaron, I'm leaving Thursday. This is the plan. I'm like, great. You just left me high and dry. Now how am I gonna get all the kids? I never speak.
Erin Clark [00:34:38]:
This is my. And you're just gonna leave me? And this is all happening in front of our children, of course. And we were heated, and I was so angry. And I'm like, I can't believe you let me down that night. I went out with some girlfriends, and we're sitting and I'm venting in a very biblical way, of course. And I'm like, the prayer request? Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, guys. I'm like, I just feel so frustrated, like, I do a lot.
Erin Clark [00:35:05]:
And I asked him for this one thing that the date before he went away, I was speaking, and he was going to go do the driving, and now he's leaving Thursday morning. And my friend looked at me and she's like, yeah, because you speak Wednesday night. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? Yeah, that would be the day after. I just thought I was speaking Thursday night. That's great. I'm like, oh, no, how do I get out of this? Can I spin this now? You gotta own it. You gotta own it. And so I quickly pulled out my phone and I texted right away, and I was like, I am so sorry.
Erin Clark [00:35:43]:
I got the days wrong. And then, of course, I had to text my girls and follow up with them because they were there for the conflict. This is something super important that I've learned over the years. If you have conflict in front of your kids, they often don't see the resolution. Usually happens after they go to bed. Then you start your conversations, you talk through the day, you figure stuff out. Always follow back, follow through, so that they see those resolutions. Conflict is going to happen.
Erin Clark [00:36:06]:
We are the greatest example for them to see how to fight fair, fight well, and then forgive.
Mark Clark [00:36:12]:
So the text was, I'm sorry, you were right. And I took a photo of it and I blew it up. And now it sits over our fireplace. So you got to forgive. You got to forgive. Life's too short, right? Second thing, the cross of Christ. I mean, you can do a hundred different things. The cross of Christ does it models sacrifice for us.
Mark Clark [00:36:36]:
There's a lot of sacrifice in relationships, right? A lot of sacrifice in marriage. Aaron would never talk about this publicly, but when we started dating, she was kind of going down the track of a modeling career. She was involved. They were talking, go to New York, sign with this company, go to LA, sign with this company. We started dating, and she had to make a decision, like, am I going to go into the modeling world, or am I going to go into the ministry world? And she gave up all that, started working a job, put me through seminary. Like she could have had a whole different life. That's sacrifice. We all make those decisions.
Mark Clark [00:37:12]:
I had to sacrifice by marrying a model. That's a good line, actually. I should keep that.
Erin Clark [00:37:22]:
That's funny.
Mark Clark [00:37:23]:
But we all make the sacrifices, and this is what Paul's trying to set up for us. You gotta live lives of sacrifice so that the object of your affection, flourishing, is the most important thing, and that's how you're gonna flourish. All right, the third and last one is gardening. And what he means by gardening is not literally gardening. It's that God with Adam and Eve looked at them and said, here you are in the garden. I need you to go outside the garden. Because outside the garden is wild. The world is a mess.
Mark Clark [00:37:53]:
It's broken. It's a disaster. And I need you to go and bring order to it. So here's the point. Some of you, the reason you're not flourishing in your marriage is because you have no mission. Your only mission is to figure each other's love languages out, get a two car garage and have a couple kids that don't kill people. And that's your goal in life. You have no vision where God goes, here's what I want out of your marriage.
Mark Clark [00:38:24]:
I want you to storm the gates of hell and reach people for Jesus who are lost. You know who your enemy is. It's not your spouse. They don't wake up. I know in your brain. They wake up every morning twisting their mustache, trying to figure out how to mess your life up. It's not true. Your only enemy is Satan, sin and death.
Mark Clark [00:38:45]:
And your job is to use your money and your house and your car and all the things that are involved in your relationship for that mission alone. Because when you don't have a big enough mission, here's what happens. You fight each other. Some of you, the only reason you're fighting is because you're sitting in a trench with too much time and luxury on your hands. And you're looking at each other because you're not on mission doing anything risky. It's like any. Yes, thank you. She's fantastic this morning, by the way.
Mark Clark [00:39:14]:
Listen, guys, watch any war movie. If the Germans are coming at you, sorry. If you're german, but read a history book. If the Germans are coming at you, you're fighting them. But if they don't come at you for two weeks, what do you do? You sit in the trench and you start fighting each other. Some of you, you don't have a risky big vision and mission in your marriage at all, except to survive. And that's why you're fighting. So God goes, I want you to garden.
Mark Clark [00:39:51]:
I want you to take the wild and waste and evil and awfulness and brokenness of the world and do something about it in the time that I've given you. Yeah, yeah.
Erin Clark [00:40:01]:
And when we do this, it gets messy. It's uncomfortable when we do this, the way that we have structured our family and being on mission is our house is an open door policy. Like, we want our house to be a place where people come and they feel seen and they feel known. But when you do that, it also invites an order sometimes it can be intrusive at times. I remember at the very beginning of COVID Canada, everything had completely shut down. We didn't understand Covid at that time as a whole world. And no one was allowed to enter anybody's homes. And all of a sudden, one day, this mom and her two kids were at our front door crying.
Erin Clark [00:40:46]:
They knew our house was a safe place to come and they had to have a domestic disturbance in their home under the stress of COVID and all of that. And they stood at our door and they said, we don't know what to do. Can you help us? And they had just come from a police station and a hospital. My kids, these are early stages where they're like, so we're not going to follow the law. We're not going to follow rules. That was scary for them. The fact that they'd been at a hospital and a police station was scary for them. And then on top of it, the circumstance, it became scary because I had to leave these young kids with my young kids and say, hey, guys, like, I'm so sorry, but I need to go and be with this mom.
Erin Clark [00:41:26]:
I need to go talk this through. And as I'm there, my girls are having, they're hearing the story about how the dad hit this little girl. It's not, it's not always pretty. When we're on mission, it is messy. But in those moments, there is such beauty because this world is, is not a safe place. But we need to teach our kids to be on mission, to be focused. Our kids need to enter the fight with us in marriage. We need to be on mission together.
Erin Clark [00:41:55]:
This is how we're going to thrive as individuals in our marriages and in our family. And maybe you don't have a vision for your family. Maybe you don't have a vision for yourself. And you need to come before the Lord and you need to say God, like, who am I in you? Who do you say I am? And how do you want me to use my gifts? How do you want to use our gifts to go out and be on mission for Christ? How are we going to use our gifts in the world to have people be seen and ultimately lead them to a relationship in Christ? That is our mission. Every person who is a Christ follower, that is our mission.
Mark Clark [00:42:31]:
Amen. Preach.
Erin Clark [00:42:33]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:42:33]:
All right, let's pray for y'all.
Erin Clark [00:42:36]:
Yeah.
Mark Clark [00:42:38]:
Lord, thank you for relationships. Thank you that you, you built us in the garden to relate to one another, to relate to you and to relate to the world. I pray you would help us to flourish in our friendships, in our dating life, in our marriage, as we kind of honed in on that today. But ultimately, Jesus, that we would stop looking to all of that to actually fulfill us, because some of us are going after trying to have good relationships and we haven't figured out our relationship with Jesus yet. So I just pray that this image that Paul gives of the crucified Lord of the universe, that our hearts would be stirred to trust in that Jesus and treasure him above everything else, and know that all the other issues that we've talked about are all. They all flow from that. So if there's people here right now that they just need to give their life to you, they need to just go, Lord Jesus, come into my life right now, that they would do so in this moment. And if there's people who are like, I already know you, Jesus, but my marriage needs help.
Mark Clark [00:43:39]:
My dating life needs help. My friendship life needs help. We pray for those miracles to happen in this room. We're here because we believe you are alive and you are still working and moving. And pray that you do that in this room. In Jesus great name, we pray. Amen. I.